Curse

GreatLich · Nov 17, 2006, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximumraver

Those cops are lucky they dont live in The Netherlands, if this would happen at the school where i used to go to, they (the cops) would probably lying in a hospital right now.

This is why i really like living here, we have a lot more freedom here, and no (or at least 90% less) cops who are abusing their power like that. And i think they aren't even allowed to wear tasers anyway.

Ah yes, the Netherlands... where cops get zero respect instead of zero tolerance. Where police officers can't ask for directions without being told to "f*ck off and go catch some real criminals"

the Netherlands are full of people who break the speed limit and blame the police for it. In the Netherlands it's not a crime until you get caught.

Come to think of it, the Netherlands scare me more than this video will ever do.

Manic Smile · Nov 17, 2006, 10:38 AM // 10:38

What the police did was plain wrong. But I wish it was me...oh yea, I'd have me a few mil in damages by now.

Lord Sojar · Nov 17, 2006, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Those police officers should be fired and fined heavily for breaking the constitutional rights of that man. The right not be subject to cruel and unusual punishment. Those cops deserve to die painful deaths and burn in the fires of hell. TYVM.

Lag Hell · Nov 17, 2006, 11:35 AM // 11:35

thats way messed up... luckily i live in a country where there is still much debate of wether the tazer should be bought into use by the police or not, and as of yet, ther still only armed with peper spray..

Tranquilis · Nov 17, 2006, 04:43 PM // 16:43

I'd have to say that those officers were poorly, very poorly, trained. Passive resistance, like going utterly limp, or simply lying or sitting down and refusing to move is not an excuse for the taser. Tasers are only appropriate where someone is an active threat, and are not for use as pain-compliance tools.

Sure, the student was dumber than a box of bricks, but the police were out of line. There are any number of come-along holds that can be used on people whom are passively resisting that would have done the trick much better, and without injury. Properly-trained officers should know those holds. If the student tried to struggle after a come-along hold was used, then you can taser him with good cause.
But not before hand.

Use of taser as pain-compliance tool against passive resistance == torture, and is a gross violation of civil rights, even if the student was an idiot. Stupidity is not legally punishable by torture.

Former Ruling · Nov 17, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Skullcrasher

I don't really care about how idiotic some peoples can get. I think this fool deserve it and the cops didn't do nothing wrong at all. First rule with police is NEVER resist arrest. Follow what they're telling you or else you'll be brought down the hard way like this moron did.

Thats a misinformed post...

Did you even read what happened here or just watch the video?

Firstly: The guy was leaving the lab (heading towards the door) when the police GRABBED HIS ARM and stopped him from leaving. (Eye witness says he was leaving, the police come in, grab his arm, he tells them "get off me" and they respond by tazering him the first time)

Secondly: He didn't resist leaving the lab, They tazered him as he was leaving with a tazer setting that makes your legs go limp for atleast a few minutes (information via a lab study), then immediently threatened to tazer him again if he didn't get up.

Third: The police claim that during the incident he was trying to incite resistence from the students when we have sound from the whole incident (and video footage of most of it) inwhich he says nothing that justifies the officers claims. LikeTranquilis said, he was stupid for choosing that exact time to say "**** you" and claim police abuse (both of which obviously incited the officers to act more harshly against him), but none of that rabbling can be held against him in the way they claim, especially not to justify the use of a tazer.

Fourth: The officers refused to give other students their badge numbers and information and one officer threatened to tazer another student if he asked again (which is assualt and can land the officer a criminal charge by itself - not even counting the whole tazering incident).

I'm a firm supporter of strong force against those that need it, but this case is going down as police abuse most probably.

Given the popularity of the case (thousands of views,and 38 honors on youtube alone in 2 days) they'll be pressured to deal harshly with the officers or have major backlash. Probably compensation for the student, firing of all officers involved, and maybe criminal charges against the officer that assualted the other student if the other student cares to press them.

l)l2UNl( · Nov 18, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

wtf...

these officers, r they trained in any way?

Malice Black · Nov 19, 2006, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by l)l2UNl(

wtf...

these officers, r they trained in any way?

I doubt they are highly skilled officers if they are working on a school campus, most likely they are in training or been assigned to an "easy" assignment as part of a punishment.

druggedchimp · Nov 19, 2006, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Retarded cops in the USA make me cry myself to sleep at night.

Malice Black · Nov 19, 2006, 01:27 AM // 01:27

You should count yourselves lucky. In the UK if you defend yourself from being attacked by a group of teenagers (hitting back) the victim is arrested for assaulting an minor...the youths get a slapped wrist (if that) and sent on their way.

People of the US..stop crying, I for one would love to see forceful police over here..it sucks that teenage gangs now basically own whole areas of our major cities..cities such as London,Birmingham,Manchester now have a higher murder rate then any "ghetto" in the USA.

Count yourselves lucky.

druggedchimp · Nov 19, 2006, 01:37 AM // 01:37

I had no idea Bane. Sorry.

PS: Does that have anything to do with the fact that you guys always have favor?

Malice Black · Nov 19, 2006, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by druggedchimp

I had no idea Bane. Sorry.

PS: Does that have anything to do with the fact that you guys always have favor?

LOL nope..its due to the fact the US players can't play anything besides Igay.

Divinitys Creature · Nov 19, 2006, 11:44 PM // 23:44

This is pretty much what I said over at TGH.

My intial thoughts and ideas after reading and thinking about this more are a little different. Reading the comments on YouTube and here have given me some more food for thought.

Intially I was shocked and saddened. This hasn't changed much. I really think that with so many cops, once they had him on the ground they could swiftly cuff/restrain him (Mostafa the student). I thought that was how tazers were supposed to be used. I have seen examples on TV where cops get tazed and restrained for practise and some real life examples and it always seems to be a swift way of stopping someone. I thought the cops were brutal at first but it was an emotional reaction. Then I read some comments about how it was actually a power trip. Watching the video again it seems like torture when they had him cuffed and continued to taze him. Forcing him to stand up after shocking him. There didn't seem to be any humanity or giving him time to recover. It's like this was all some kind of pre-emptive strike. There are no reports that he hurt another student or anything like that. I think a bunch of burly cops can restrain a kid without a tazer at all. If they tazer someone or just bring out the baton - after they have been floored and are hurting, there should be some time for them to recover and to realise what has happened and get a grip. Maybe even a few minutes to run out of steam yelling about the Patriot Act or whatever. That time should not be measured in seconds if he is incapable of harming anyone. This guy was unarmed and there were enough cops there. He didn't have a knife against the neck of a hostage.

People complained about Mostafa's comments about the Patriot Act and that it somehow validated the cops' actions. Why? The guy has free speech - he can protest. I think blaming him on this point and saying he deserves tazering for that is invalid unless someone can explain it.

Perspective. Where is the perspective in this? Mostafa was staying late in the college library where he pays to be and is allowed to do so. He just left his frigging card or didn't have it on him or w/e. Think about this. This is you, me and everyone else who has ever been to a library - we have all forgot our library card at least once. In any library I went to you swipe your card to even get in at any time of day. That makes perfect sense. If these guys let anyone in and only check cards after a certain time and then do spot checks it's a retarded policy IMHO. The point is, leaving your card is a common mistake that anyone can make. If you had a 5000 word essay due in for tomorrow and it's for college, you might want to just finish it and not want to go all the way back to your dorm to get your friggen card.

Threatening behaviour. The cops threatened to taze students asking for their badge numbers. Those students were witnesses at the scene and it's their resposibility to be vigilant since they are involved and they should know what is going on. The cops serve the students they do not rule them. They could have legitimate complaints and there is a good possibility for a lawsuit so they were right to ask for identification. The guy threatening tazering was still holding the tazer. I have seen cops handling brawls and the brawlers were far more dangerous than this kid. They didn't need a freaking tazer to do it. How long before they taze you if you look at them funny.

Warning. Where was the warning - I never heard something like "If you don't stand still [or walk slowly or w/e] we will shoot you with a tazer". Where the hell is the warning? Did he even know he stood a chance of being shot by a 'less lethal' weapon? I really think these cops were trigger happy.

Danger. What exact danger did this student pose? He never even threatened anyone with violence and was outnumbered by the cops.

Racial element. At first I did not know the student was persian and this never crossed my mind, but comments on YouTube raised this point. Do you think there was any prejudice going on? No-one was heard saying anything racial.

Jealousy. Some comments on YouTube have an air of hating the guy because he is in a good college and so they are happy he got hurt. If people feel that way it's pretty disgusting IMO. Some also said the other students didn't make a more active stand because they are the leaders of tomorrow and agree with agressive policing of the rules.

I think Mostafa made an error in judgement and escalated things instead of keeping his cool. But I think everyone can make mistakes, especially students. People shout in public all the time - when they get ripped off in a store or some other injustice. Sometimes they're wrong and sometimes they are right. I think it doesn't help when one person loses their cool that authority figures fail to assert their authority in a measured way and instead lose their cool and respond to their base fears/anger instead.

I wouldn't want to see this happen in front of me, would you? I would have liked to see this guy calmly escorted out of the building. You can even use force in a calm manner. Think if this happened to your best friend and they did all the same things Mostafa did. How would you feel when someone you know went through this?

If you agree with the cops on this, should children be allowed to get slapped and caned in school? Why did they stop that? Now I think discipline is sometimes lacking but this was just extreme IMO.

It would have been nice to have some more context and better filming, I agree with that.

I don't hate cops or anything like that. They do a very hard job and a lot of pressure is put on them from their superiors and by criminals. I'm just talking about this specific case.

Edit: I am not citing law because I'm looking at things from an idealistic point of view.

Update: The family of the victim are going to court on 20th Nov. I'll post any news I find after that.

Remember if you have a phone camera and are in a situation like this (God forbid) make it count.

abyssal hunter · Nov 20, 2006, 01:14 AM // 01:14

im suprised a riot didnt follow...

Stalker Haras · Nov 20, 2006, 01:44 AM // 01:44

In my honest opinion, these officers should have their badges removed. Sure the student wasn't complying, but I've seen officers in nearly the same situation, just simply pick the person up and bring them to the Police Vehicle, not needing to use any violence at all.

Divinitys Creature summed this story up quite well, and I am highly interested to see what happens to these officers. If this would have happened near me, I would have not stopped to ask for a badge number from the officer, I would have continued to ask, because if he would have refused, then he would get in trouble more, and if he would have used the tazer, that would have been his badge gone, and jail time for himself.

psychochris20 · Nov 20, 2006, 02:36 AM // 02:36

ok, I saw that video and watched some of the replies. I'll admit it's emotionally trying at first, but everyone needs to calm down and step back and look at what happened.

In my opinion (and many will disagree) i think the fault falls on both parties. The campus cops are just that campus cops. most of them are still in training I would think. if I'm wrong then please correct me. Either way they should have just hand cuffed him and carried him out. They made it worse by standing in there and making it appear that he was being abused. They have him contained, just take him out. There were 2 or 3 cops, they can't lift one guy? duh! keep the peace, not be part of the distrubence.

Then the student, if he didn't have his ID, then he was screwed. he shouldn't have had an attitude with the cops, he could have calmly explained that he was leaving and they could have escorted him out. By bitching and whining he did his part to make it worse.

My favorite part: the response. I've seen a few of the reply and it's mostly just a bunch of tree hugging liberal hippie wannabe crying (some literally) about how our right are gone. The second you become aggresive toward a cop on a campus, you've thrown your rights away. This is a situtaion where everyone lost.

And it's UCLA for crying out loud, liberal city folks. Good thing one of the officers was black or else i bet you they would have played the race card. And if this kid is iranian, so what, he should better that he's going to be eye'd more then other's like being in an airport, or trying to vote in texas while hispanic. It's not right, but it's still the way things are.

I'm going to get a lot of crap for this, just calm down before you say anything and think it through. Acting on emotions alone is what made this happen. tha cops made themselves look bad, as did the student. And because it's cool or hip to be a big liberal in college because it's the only way to get a passing grade, doesn't make it wise to shoot off while hot headed.

sure i'm a moderate and I think the libs are crying on cue with this. And the cons are taking to the side of authority because it's what they do.

If I was the cop, I'd tell him to calm down and leave, if he didn't my partner and I would cuff him and take him out immediately. if I was the student I'm keep calm and leave the building without getting an attitude.

oh well, no one reads these anyways. and those who do, start your flaming.

Malice Black · Nov 20, 2006, 03:03 AM // 03:03

I have no affiliation to any government party :P If I had to vote it would be BNP (only party that fights for the rights of the white english people)

Saying you are a BNP supporter is like walking into Compton wearing a full KKK outfit...

Anyways..whats done is done.

Quote:

If you agree with the cops on this, should children be allowed to get slapped and caned in school? Why did they stop that? Now I think discipline is sometimes lacking but this was just extreme IMO.

Wouldn't work in this age, the students would fight back. Have you seen the amount of violence in the schools these days? knifes, guns, teachers being raped/beaten.

FeuerFrei · Nov 20, 2006, 09:57 AM // 09:57

this is retarded......i really pity that student... tazered just cos of an id.....this is seriously rubbish...what is wrong with the cops?

extra bacon · Nov 20, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16

where can i buy one of those tazers?

big papi · Nov 20, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42

ebay?